In Honor of Gabriel Garcia Moreno's 150th anniversary year of His Martyrdom
on August 6th, 2025
Reconquest Episode 457:
The Heroic Witness of Ecuador’s Martyr-President, Gabriel García Moreno.
Guest: Kathleen Heckenkamp
https://screenapp.io/app/#/shared/zorhIiRQAp
Your recording has been transcribed and summarized.
Introduction and Program Details (00:00:00 - 00:00:51)
Brother Andre Marie welcomes listeners to Reconquest and the Crusade Radio Network, providing website addresses (catholicism.org and reconquest.net) and his email (bam at catholicism.org) for contact. He mentions his social media presence and introduces episode 457, focusing on the heroic witness of Ecuador's martyr president, Gabriel Garcia Moreno. He introduces his guest, Mrs. Kathleen Heckenkamp, previously interviewed about Our Lady of Good Success.
Gabriel Garcia Moreno's Assassination and Final Words (00:00:52 - 00:02:11)
Brother Andre Marie provides background on the assassination of Gabriel Garcia Moreno on August 6th, 1875, the Feast of the Transfiguration. He describes the event, detailing how Moreno was lured from the cathedral where he was adoring the Blessed Sacrament and attacked by Masonic assassins with machetes, sustaining severe injuries. He highlights Moreno's final words, "Dios no muere" (God does not die), emphasizing the heroic nature of his death.
Gabriel Garcia Moreno and Our Lady of Good Success (00:02:11 - 00:04:39)
Brother Andre Marie introduces Kathleen Heckenkamp to discuss the apparent battle between good and evil, referencing a previous interview about Our Lady of Good Success. The conversation centers on Our Lady's prophecy concerning Gabriel Garcia Moreno. Kathleen explains that on January 16th, 1599, Mother Mariana and other founding mothers, imprisoned due to a rebellion within the monastery, received a vision. Our Lady spoke of the future Republic of Ecuador (which wasn't a republic at the time) and prophesied the arrival of a truly Catholic president, Garcia Moreno, who would be martyred in a square near the convent. This president would consecrate the republic to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, sustaining the Catholic religion during difficult times for the Church.
The Prophecy and its Interpretation (00:04:45 - 00:05:58)
Kathleen Heckenkamp interprets a prophecy foretelling a period of persecution of religious communities by a Masonic-controlled government. The prophecy also mentions the eventual triumph over these enemies, aided by powerful defenders. The prophecy concludes with a request for a statue of the speaker to be placed on the abbess's chair, offering consolation and answering prayers during difficult times. Heckenkamp connects this request for a statue to the consolation offered by the prophecy itself, suggesting it will provide comfort and aid in the face of adversity. She links the prophecy to the situation in Ecuador, noting that the country didn't exist as a nation at the time of the prophecy, but rather was part of a larger Spanish colonial territory encompassing parts of Colombia and Peru.
Historical Context of the Prophecy (00:05:58 - 00:06:27)
Brother Andre Marie points out that Ecuador, as a nation, did not exist at the time the prophecy was given. He clarifies that while the land existed, it was part of the Spanish colonial empire. Heckenkamp confirms this, explaining that the area was a vast territory, with the archbishopric covering parts of Colombia, Peru, and Ecuador. Brother Andre Marie reiterates that the entire region was under Spanish rule at that time.
19th Century Independence Movements and the Assassination of Gabriel Garcia Moreno (00:06:28 - 00:08:50)
Brother Andre Marie discusses 19th-century independence movements in Latin America, noting many were conservative and Catholic, diverging from liberal Spain. He highlights the assassination of Gabriel Garcia Moreno and Archbishop Checa Ibarba, two years after consecrating Ecuador to the Sacred Heart. The Archbishop's death, by strychnine poisoning during Good Friday Mass, is described as particularly brutal. Brother Andre Marie connects this event to the earlier discussion, noting that Garcia Moreno believed Freemasonry was responsible for the country's downfall through the spread of French Revolutionary ideas and that Freemasons were behind his assassination. He then asks Kathleen Heckenkamp to elaborate on Garcia Moreno's anti-Masonry stance.
Gabriel Garcia Moreno's Early Life and Political Awakening (00:09:01 - 00:10:19)
Kathleen Heckenkamp recounts Gabriel Garcia Moreno's early life in Guayaquil, Ecuador, including his father's early death and his mother's initial efforts to educate him. She explains that a priest eventually stepped in to provide further education due to Moreno's exceptional intelligence. Moreno's academic success led him to Quito, but his involvement in politics resulted in exile by liberal leaders, forcing him to flee to France. It was during this exile that Moreno's understanding of Freemasonry deepened, leading him to believe it was the root of global issues and solidifying his mission to counter its influence.
Moreno's Mission and Places of Prayer (00:10:20 - 00:11:11)
Heckenkamp continues by describing Moreno's dedication to studying and his ambition to become President of Ecuador to combat the perceived threat of Freemasonry. She mentions two significant places of prayer for Moreno in France: a church (possibly "Saint-Sulpice," though the pronunciation is uncertain) known for its peace and its organ, and the Chapel of the Foreign Missions. Brother Andre Marie adds information about the church's famous organ.
1784 Painting and its Influence (00:11:16 - 00:12:54)
Kathleen Heckenkamp discusses a 1784 painting depicting the Blessed Trinity, the Sacred Heart of Christ, St. Michael fighting the devil, and diverse figures including Africans and missionaries. The painting's imagery suggests a battle where grace from the Sacred Heart aids St. Michael. Heckenkamp speculates that this painting, located in a building with Freemasonry origins, may have inspired the subject's work. She mentions the subject's possible visit to the chapel of the foreign missions and references Father Birth's contribution to her understanding. The discussion focuses on the artwork's religious symbolism and its potential influence on the subject's actions or beliefs.
Brother Miguel's Faith and Life in Ecuador and France (00:12:54 - 00:14:38)
Kathleen Heckenkamp speculates that Brother Miguel's prayers were for his own martyrdom, possibly in response to the expulsion of missionaries from Ecuador and other countries like China and Vietnam. She suggests he prayed for his country and the return of missionaries. She believes God had a plan for him to go to France, where his faith was renewed. Brother Andre Marie adds that while Brother Miguel believed in his faith, he lived a somewhat dissolute and socially liberal life for a time, contrasting with the conservative Quito and the more liberal Guayaquil where he originated. Despite his pious family, he embraced fashionable trends before a significant conversion during his time in Paris, where he frequented the Sons of Peace in the foreign missions chapel.
Bl. John Henry Newman's Studious Life and Parisian Context (00:14:39 - 00:17:00)
Brother Andre Marie discusses Bl. John Henry Newman's intense academic pursuits, citing sources indicating he studied 16 hours daily and would have studied even more if possible. He mentions Newman's three complete readings of the 25-volume "L'Israel Universal de l'Eglise Catholique" by Reverend Francois Rohrbacher, highlighting the work's influence on Newman's understanding of Church history and political theory, particularly concerning the relationship between Church and state. The discussion also touches upon Newman's mastery of French and English and his exposure to both revolutionary and devoutly Catholic elements in Paris, providing context for his witnessing of the conflict between the Church and Freemasonry. Finally, the speaker mentions a Mercadarian priest, Father Betancourt, as one of Newman's teachers.
Father Betancourt's Life and Career Choices (00:17:00 - 00:19:00)
Kathleen Heckenkamp recounts the life of Father Betancourt, a Latin man who quickly mastered his priestly studies within 10 months. Subsequently, he considered his future path, eventually choosing to go to Quito at age 16 with his sister's approval. He initially aspired to be a lawyer, enrolling in college and pursuing his studies. He also briefly considered the priesthood, even receiving minor orders and a tonsure, demonstrating his seriousness. However, he ultimately decided against a religious vocation, choosing instead to become a lawyer. He approached his legal career with unwavering integrity, refusing to represent individuals he deemed morally reprehensible. This commitment was tested when he was deceived by a priest he initially believed to be virtuous, leading to significant emotional distress upon discovering the priest's true nature.
Early Life and Education (00:19:00 - 00:20:14)
Kathleen Heckenkamp describes the subject's aversion to defending murderers, leading him to quit law. Despite this, his broad education allowed him to converse on various topics, including medicine, law, agriculture, and natural science. Brother Andre Marie adds that initially, there was consideration of a scientific career, possibly in chemistry or botany, before he chose law. Later, after French exile, he taught chemistry at the University of Quito, highlighting his diverse skills and a Renaissance man quality.
Political Career and Exile (00:20:15 - 00:20:51)
Brother Andre Marie explains the subject's decision against a religious vocation, his deep immersion in studies, and his senatorial career before exile. The exile was a consequence of his opposition to extreme liberals and corrupt individuals in Ecuador. A brief mention is made of events occurring around his birth in Ecuador.
Garcia Marano's Adulthood and Marriage (00:20:51 - 00:23:06)
Brother Andre Marie discusses Garcia Marano's adulthood, noting his exile due to systemic corruption and subsequent deeper conversion in France. He then married Doña Rosa Ascasubi, a marriage that Kathleen Heckenkamp elaborates on. Heckenkamp details the marriage as a proxy marriage in 1846, with Marano being 25 and Ascasubi 12 years old or 37, depending on the source. Ascasubi was of noble blood and wealthy, sharing a similar mindset with Marano and his family. Her brother, Manuel, would later become president of Ecuador. Heckenkamp suggests the marriage was based on shared ideology and Ascasubi's intelligence. The couple had children, but Marano experienced on-and-off exile during the marriage, traveling to France. Ascasubi later died of a herniation, and their four children died young, with some stillborn or dying on the day of birth.
Gabriel Garcia Moreno's Personal Life and Struggles (00:23:06 - 00:25:11)
Kathleen Heckenkamp describes Gabriel Garcia Moreno's wife's death as a tragic event, highlighting their deep love and correspondence during his time in France. She notes the sadness of his life, marked by the loss of his children. She mentions discussing his life with a friend, emphasizing the shared family mindset of fighting for good against revolutionaries as a key factor in shaping his life. Brother Andre Marie adds that Garcia Moreno worked as a journalist, a profession that likely contributed to his exile under the Ecuadorian tyrant Urbina. He quotes Garcia Moreno's scathing assessment of Urbina, revealing his outspoken nature and lack of political shyness. Kathleen Heckenkamp further details Garcia Moreno's journalistic efforts, mentioning his publication of six newspapers in Quito to combat revolutionaries, and surprisingly reveals his talent as a poet, though she admits her inability to quote his Spanish poetry. Brother Andre Marie expresses admiration for his poetic abilities.
Early Life and Education (00:25:19 - 00:25:54)
Brother Andre Marie discusses the subject's upbringing, noting his education despite a poor background, thanks to the support of a man named Betancourt. He later received a university education and became a journalist, notably defending the Jesuits against revolutionaries during a time when the Jesuit order differed significantly from its modern form. He wrote a pamphlet in their defense.
Presidency and Re-election (00:25:55 - 00:27:38)
The conversation shifts to the subject's presidency. Brother Andre Marie mentions three terms, while Kathleen Heckenkamp clarifies that he was assassinated during his third term's preparation, having been elected in 1861 for a four-year term. Due to constitutional limitations preventing immediate re-election, he supported another Catholic president before being re-elected around 1865. Heckenkamp details his post-presidency travel plans, initially restricted by a one-year rule for ex-presidents, but ultimately waived unanimously by Congress due to concerns about potential revolutionary unrest.
Gabriel Garcia Moreno's Presidency and Legacy (00:27:38 - 00:30:15)
This segment discusses Gabriel Garcia Moreno's presidency, focusing on his actions during his time in office. Kathleen Heckenkamp explains that Moreno was compelled to lead troops despite lacking formal military training, highlighting his role in quelling revolutions and executing captured revolutionaries as a means to quell the unrest. She emphasizes his success in this approach. Brother Andre Marie adds that non-Catholic sources often label Moreno a theocrat, tyrant, and despot. However, he counters this by pointing out Moreno's efforts to combat corruption across various sectors (political, financial, educational, and ecclesiastical) and his negotiation of a highly favorable concordat with the Holy See, securing crucial financial support for the Pope during a time of hardship. The discussion also touches upon the Ecuadorian constitution, noting its initial defects and subsequent revision under Moreno's leadership. The significant financial contribution of Ecuador to the papacy (10% of its economy) is also mentioned.
Gabriel's Policies and Actions (00:30:15 - 00:32:09)
This segment discusses Gabriel's policies and actions as leader. He established Catholicism as the state religion, excluding all others, and restricted public office to Catholics only. Members of secret societies were stripped of their Ecuadorian citizenship. These actions, while effective in bringing about change, angered liberals and Freemasons. Despite his strict approach, including executions, even against his mother's wishes, he justified his actions as necessary for justice. He was noted for his dedication, refusing a salary and instead distributing it to state improvements (roads, railroads, schools) and the poor. He personally participated in distributing food and aid to the impoverished, including indigenous populations who didn't speak Spanish.
Education Reform and Expansion (00:32:10 - 00:33:52)
Brother Andre Marie inquired about the methods used to improve education, a key goal of the subject being discussed. Kathleen Heckenkamp explained that the initial challenge was the dispersal of religious educators due to revolutionary activities. In response, the subject petitioned French religious orders, including Christian Brothers and Jesuits, as well as nuns of charity, to establish schools. This resulted in the creation of approximately 500 schools in a short time. Due to a shortage of religious teachers, the Christian Brothers were tasked with training lay teachers. Religious instruction was mandatory in all schools, and an almost-mandatory decree was issued encouraging parents to send children aged eight and above to school, with schools established in villages with 50 or more children. This widespread educational initiative included both boys and girls, with nuns teaching the latter.
Comparing Statecraft Across Cultures (00:33:52 - 00:34:05)
Brother Andre Marie noted that the American political landscape shouldn't be used as the sole framework for understanding statecraft in different contexts, implying a need for broader perspective when evaluating historical political actions.
Addressing Misconceptions about Gabriel Garcia Moreno (00:34:07 - 00:36:16)
Brother Andre Marie discusses common misconceptions about Gabriel Garcia Moreno, particularly those stemming from modern liberal biases. He refutes the assumption that Moreno's close ties to the Church and anti-Freemasonry stance implied opposition to social justice or favoritism towards the upper classes. Instead, he highlights Moreno's charitable actions, giving half his income to the poor and returning the other half to the national treasury, demonstrating his lack of self-interest. Furthermore, he counters the notion that Moreno's traditional Catholic views on the union of church and state and religious instruction in schools necessarily meant he was anti-science or opposed to progress. He cites Moreno's commitment to infrastructure development, specifically his efforts in building railroads to connect the coastal and mountainous regions of the country, thereby fostering unity and overcoming internal rivalries.
Gabriel Garcia Moreno's Progressive Policies and Legacy (00:36:16 - 00:38:51)
This segment discusses Gabriel Garcia Moreno's progressive policies and actions as president of Ecuador. Brother Andre Marie highlights that despite being perceived as a conservative Catholic traditionalist, Moreno was more progressive than his predecessors. He initiated various infrastructure improvements, including railroads, and focused on land conservation by introducing bamboo and eucalyptus trees from Australia to combat soil erosion caused by deforestation by indigenous people. Kathleen Heckenkamp corroborates this, emphasizing Moreno's love for botany and his practical approach to environmental issues. Brother Andre Marie further emphasizes Moreno's belief in cooperation between church and state leaders and cites Gary Potter's article (available on reconquest.net) as a source for further information on Moreno's achievements. The discussion underscores Moreno's multifaceted approach to governance, combining faith, science, and practical solutions to improve Ecuador.
Gabriel Garcia Moreno's 150th Martyrdom Anniversary (00:38:55 - 00:40:45)
Kathleen Heckenkamp mentions the upcoming 150th anniversary of Gabriel Garcia Moreno's martyrdom on August 6th. The Institute of Gabriel Garcia Moreno in Ecuador is preparing commemorative medallions and holy cards. While acknowledging the cause's current unpopularity, she expresses hope for its success, viewing it as a way to introduce people to Garcia Moreno's life. She notes the cause's initial proposal in the 1950s, mentioning Cardinal Torre's support and the belief in Garcia Moreno's martyrdom by several popes, including Pius IX, Leo XIII, and Pius XII. However, she points out the ongoing opposition in Ecuador and the insufficient support within the church for canonization, suggesting that a restoration might bring forth the causes of Mother Mariana and Garcia Moreno together.
Controversy Surrounding Garcia Moreno in Ecuador (00:40:45 - 00:41:22)
Brother Andre Marie brings up Gary Potter's observations on the controversy surrounding Garcia Moreno in modern-day Ecuador. He recounts an article by Potter referencing Pope John Paul II's speech in an Ecuadorian cathedral, noting the absence of any mention of Garcia Moreno despite his assassination in that very location. Potter questioned whether the omission was intentional or simply an oversight, highlighting the sensitivity surrounding Garcia Moreno's legacy in Ecuador.
Gabriel Garcia Moreno's Legacy and Piety (00:41:23 - 00:43:43)
Brother Andre Marie recounts Gary's investigation into whether Gabriel Garcia Moreno was mentioned in a Pope's speech in Quito. Gary, speaking Spanish, inquired at the Ecuadorian embassy in Washington D.C., noticing a significant reaction from an attaché upon mentioning Moreno's name. A subsequent request for a transcript yielded a negative result, with the embassy later stating Moreno remains a controversial figure in Ecuador. Kathleen Heckenkamp adds that Moreno's controversiality has increased due to current liberal ideologies. The discussion then shifts to Moreno's legacy, acknowledging his status as a great statesman and devout Catholic. Heckenkamp highlights Moreno's personal piety, specifically mentioning his repeated practice of carrying a crucifix through Quito, notably on Good Friday, likely his last Easter. This act underscores Moreno's penitential nature, contrasting with the actions of most presidents.
The Martyrdom and Last Moments of a Catholic Man (00:43:43 - 00:45:16)
This section details the final moments and death of a Catholic man. Kathleen Heckenkamp describes his devout religious practices, including daily mass, prayers, and the recitation of at least part of the rosary. He carried religious items, including an "Imitation of Christ," a Catholic rule, and two scapulars, all discovered after his death. These items were bloodstained, indicating the violent nature of his death. He was martyred on a First Friday, sustaining six gunshot wounds, an axe or machete blow to the head penetrating his brain, and the severing of his hand and arm. Despite the horrific injuries, witnesses noted his forgiving expression in his eyes, even though he was unable to speak. The priest administered last rites.
The Priest's Role and the Severity of Injuries (00:45:16 - 00:45:21)
Brother Andre Marie adds that the priest urged the dying man to forgive his enemies, highlighting the man's inability to speak due to his injuries. The severity of the injuries is emphasized, with the comment that it was astonishing he survived for even 15 minutes.
Father Moreno's Last Words and Life (00:45:22 - 00:47:48)
Father Moreno's last words were "God does not die," reflecting his deep piety. His daily attendance at mass and confession, along with his charitable acts towards the poor, demonstrated an exemplary life. He maintained a strict personal rule of life, including kneeling or standing to pray whenever possible and wearing a hair shirt. His rule of life, detailed in Gary Potter's article on Catholicism.org, reveals a rigorous schedule with limited recreation and a strong emphasis on time management. While described as energetic, driven, and even an "alpha male," he also struggled with impatience, as evidenced by a story where he reprimanded a priest for interrupting him with a trivial matter. Despite this, he actively worked on his humility, meditating on it daily and seeking it in prayer.
Moreno's Personal Life and Post-Death Acclaim (00:47:55 - 00:49:31)
Brother Andre Marie discusses Moreno's devout religious practices, including daily examination of conscience and seeking forgiveness from a priest for a past transgression. He emphasizes Moreno's humility and self-awareness despite his position as head of state. The conversation then shifts to Moreno's legacy, noting that many of his accomplishments were undone after his death by liberal forces. Brother Andre Marie asks about post-mortem assessments of Moreno by prominent Catholic figures. He mentions Louis Villot's praise and the recognition of Moreno as a martyr by several Popes. Brother Andre Marie then inquires about other notable expressions of appreciation from church and state leaders. Kathleen Heckenkamp indicates she has further information on this topic.
Moreno's Daily Rule of Life and Further Acclaim (00:49:34 - 00:50:35)
Kathleen Heckenkamp begins to gather information regarding further papal endorsements of Moreno. Brother Andre Marie, in anticipation, shares details of Moreno's daily rule of life, as documented in the back of an invitation. This included daily prayers, Mass attendance, rosary recitation, reading a chapter of the invitation, and striving to remain in God's presence, avoiding idle talk, and offering his heart to God before actions. The chapter ends mid-sentence.
Spiritual Practices and Influences (00:50:36 - 00:52:06)
Brother Andre Marie discusses spiritual practices, noting the influence of Jesuit spiritual directors and retreat masters on certain practices, such as the preference for standing or kneeling prayer over sitting. Kathleen Heckenkamp then introduces several individuals who held Garcia Moreno in high regard, including French bishops who supported his canonization. She highlights Father Mateo Crawley's strong desire for Garcia Moreno's canonization, emphasizing the significance of the rediscovered Sacred Heart painting commissioned by Garcia Moreno, which Father Mateo used to spread devotion. The painting's journey, including its time in hiding (possibly due to Masons) and eventual rediscovery in Peru, is also discussed.
Father Mateo Crawley and the Sacred Heart Devotion (00:52:07 - 00:52:48)
The conversation focuses on Father Mateo Crawley's role in spreading the devotion to the Sacred Heart. Kathleen Heckenkamp describes the prominent features of the painting Father Mateo used: a crowned Sacred Heart of Jesus holding a globe, with rays emanating from the heart landing specifically on Ecuador. Brother Andre Marie acknowledges the significance of Father Mateo Crawley's work as a great apostle of home enthronement to the Sacred Heart, recognizing his fame and influence.
The Discovery of Garcia Moreno's Remains (00:52:48 - 00:55:13)
Kathleen Heckenkamp shares a touching story about her research, highlighting the difficulty in tracing the origins of certain historical events. She recounts meeting Dr. Francisco Salazar Alvarado, a prominent Ecuadorian historian in the early 2000s, whose great-great-grandfather was a close friend and political companion of Garcia Moreno. In 1973, around the centennial of Garcia Moreno's death, there was a discussion about commemorating him, but the lack of his remains posed a challenge. Dr. Salazar embarked on a quest to find Garcia Moreno's body, and in 1975, successfully located not only the body but also the hearts of Garcia Moreno and Archbishop Checa Barba, which had been hidden in a chapel of the Good Shepherd by supporters to protect them from the Masons.
Garcian Vareno's Family After His Death (00:55:13 - 00:55:36)
Kathleen Heckenkamp mentions that Garcian Vareno's widow, Mariana, and one surviving son hid in the monastery of St. Catherine after his death, fearing retribution. Kathleen Heckenkamp adds that Vareno was married twice.
Conclusion of the Reconquest Radio Program (00:55:37 - 00:55:48)
Brother Andre Marie announces the end of the Reconquest radio program on the Crusade Radio Network, thanking Kathleen Heckenkamp for her contribution and offering a closing blessing.
Transcript:
undefined (00:03 - 00:19): Welcome to Reconquest and the Crusade Radio Network. This is Brother Andre Marie coming to you from St. Benedict's Center in Richmond, New Hampshire. Our websites are catholicism.org and reconquest.net. My email address, should you like to send me a brief message with a quick comment, suggestion, or question, is bam at catholicism.org.
undefined (00:19 - 00:32): That's bam at catholicism.org. You can also find me on social media. If you want to connect with me there, just look for me on your favorite social media platform. And if I am there, you can find me under the name Brother Andre Marie.
undefined (00:33 - 00:44): This evening's episode is episode number 457, the heroic witness of Ecuador's martyr president, Gabriel Garcia Moreno.
undefined (00:44 - 00:58): My guest is Mrs. Kathleen Heckenkamp, and we've interviewed her before about our lady of good success. Just a couple of introductory comments before we start with the interview.
undefined (00:58 - 01:16): On the Feast of the Transfiguration of Our Lord, that is August the 6th of 1875, a statesman, whom many we call the greatest the world has known since the so-called Reformation, was cut down by Masonic assassins on the porch of the cathedral in his nation's capital.
undefined (01:17 - 01:53): Moments before, until lured outside by a false message that he was urgently needed elsewhere, he had been adoring the Blessed Sacrament. fallen from the porch and lying stretched out on the ground his head bleeding his left arm severed and his right hand cut off by blows of a machete the illustrious victim recognized his assailants recognized in the sense of understanding for whom they acted some accounts say he gasped his last words others that he was able to cry them out defiantly all agree on the words themselves
undefined (01:53 - 02:29): Dios no muere God does not die and this is the way this is the way our hero that we're going to discuss tonight Gabriel Garcia Moreno met his maker and by the way the masons who killed him before he uttered those last words that God doesn't die they said die enemy of liberty so this is definitely a battle between good and evil here. And with me this evening to discuss this battle
undefined (02:29 - 02:49): between good and evil, notably the good part, is Kathleen Heckenkamp. Good evening, Kathleen. Good evening. Thank you for having me. Oh, and thanks for agreeing to take the time. So tying in this interview with the subject of our previous interview on Our Lady of Good Success.
undefined (02:49 - 03:27): What is it that she had to say, Our Lady that is, to Mother Mariana about Gabriel Garcia Moreno? Because it seems as if he was the subject of prophecy. Right. Well, it happened to be on January 16th, 1599 and Mother Mariana, along with some of the founding mothers had been imprisoned in the monastery prison. At the time, they were being persecuted. There was a rebel nun. Her name, they didn't give her name. They just called her
undefined (03:27 - 03:59): La Capitana, had caused an insurrection in the monastery itself. And there was a weak mother abbess that was listening to her. And so they had imprisoned her. And then the other founding mothers were so distressed by that they joined her and in that prison down down below our lady appeared to her and she was talking about the future and talking about the republic
undefined (03:59 - 04:34): of ecuador which was not a republic at the time but it would be in the future and she was she wanted to express to her that a man would come and so and this would be garcia moreno so she said to her in the 19th century there will be a truly catholic president a man of character whom god our lord will give the palm of martyrdom on the square adjoining this convent he will consecrate this republic to the sacred heart of my most holy son and this consecration will sustain the catholic
undefined (04:34 - 05:04): religion in the years that will follow, which will be ill-fated ones for the church. These years, during which the accursed sect of masonry will take control of the civil government, will see a cruel persecution of all religious communities, and will also strike out violently against this one of mine. These unfortunate men will think the convict destroyed, but God lives and I live, and we will raise up powerful defenders and set before these enemies difficulties and impossible to conquer and that triumph
undefined (05:04 - 05:39): will be ours. Thus it is the wish of my most holy son that you command a statue of me to be made just as you see me now, that you place it on the abbess's chair. So it's interesting that she said that right after she mentions Garcia Moreno. So you can kind of take it as that she was trying to give consolation for the future that not only will this president come and help Ecuador, but also she was giving Ecuador and actually the whole world
undefined (05:39 - 05:56): consolation by the making of the statue that it will help us. Because later on she talks about if they will have a great devotion to me, and because of this devotion, they will have consolation in these times, and we'll see many things. Their prayer is answered, basically.
undefined (05:56 - 06:08): So, yeah. At the time, Ecuador didn't exist. At the time, Ecuador, in other words, the land existed, obviously, but the country, the nation didn't exist. No, it was kind of consumed by Colombia.
undefined (06:08 - 06:18): So it was like a big, vast territory. The archbishopric was actually Colombia and parts of Colombia and even maybe Peru and then Ecuador.
undefined (06:19 - 06:43): But at the time, all of it was a Spanish colony, right? Right. And then in the 19th century, a lot of them get their independence. And unlike a lot of other independence movies from that era, a lot of these were, quote-unquote, conservative independence movements that split off from a liberal Spain, like in Mexico, where the government was much more Catholic and so forth than even it was in Spain.
undefined (06:45 - 07:08): So it's interesting that you mentioned the consecration of the Sacred Heart, that that was actually prophesied. One of the articles that I read today noted that not only was Gabriel Garcia Moreno assassinated, but the Archbishop, Archbishop Checa Ibarba, who together with Moreno consecrated the nation to the Sacred Heart.
undefined (07:08 - 07:35): He was killed, and he was killed in a rather sadistic way. that they, on Good Friday of 1877, only two years later, during the Mass of the Presanctified, he consumed the host and purified the wine and the chalice, as is done in the Old East Holy Week, Old Good Friday ceremony.
undefined (07:36 - 07:49): And he had to drink unconsecrated wine, and he noticed that it tasted a little sour or bitter. Yes, it was not right. So he died, and later on, after an autopsy, he died of strychnine poisoning.
undefined (07:49 - 08:03): So he was clearly murdered, and it was, I guess, kind of a brutal death to suffer the convulsions that strychnine brings on. So these were not good people.
undefined (08:03 - 08:25): They knew exactly who they were killing and why. So why don't we – so we've tied it in. Now, you brought up, in quoting what Our Lady said to Sister Mariana, Mother Mariana, pardon me, you quoted reference, made reference to Freemasonry.
undefined (08:26 - 08:40): So, now, Gabriel Garcia Moreno believed that Freemasonry was causing the downfall of this country by spreading the corrupting influence of the French Revolutionary ideas.
undefined (08:40 - 08:50): and it was Freemasons who called for his assassination so this ties into Our Lady could you talk about his anti-Masonry for a bit?
undefined (08:52 - 09:11): Well, it's interesting when you start reading about the history of Garcia Moreno and his background he was from Guayaquil and his father died when he was very young and the mother was teaching him but there came a point where she knew that he needed more help.
undefined (09:12 - 09:28): So a priest came and taught him. He was very smart, so he taught him everything he knew. But what ended up happening is through all of this, he ended up going to keto, and he learned his studies because he was so smart.
undefined (09:29 - 09:43): But when he started getting into the public realm, okay, in politics, he would get himself exiled by the liberals that were in charge at the time.
undefined (09:43 - 09:55): And so during that period, he went to France. And I believe that's when he started putting two and two together about Freemasonry.
undefined (09:56 - 10:13): I'm sure he knew it was bad, but I think it was there that he really realized that he had a mission, that the Freemasons had their revolution in 1789, and it spread all around the whole world.
undefined (10:13 - 10:27): And so he knew that that was the crux of everything, and he made up his mind there. He did a lot of studying, of course, there too, that he was going to help Ecuador by trying to stem this.
undefined (10:27 - 10:42): And I really think, in fact, he knew that his mission was to become the president of Ecuador. So I just find it interesting because I was reading how there were two places that he liked to pray there.
undefined (10:43 - 10:55): And it was St. – my pronunciation is probably not great – but the French soul piece. Sounds for peace. Yeah, that's a famous church. Yeah, so peace and – It has a famous organ in it, by the way.
undefined (10:55 - 11:06): Yeah, do you know the work? The painting? No, I'm talking about the actual organ. The musical instrument of Sansa Piste is quite famous.
undefined (11:07 - 11:18): Okay. And then the other one was the Chapel of the Foreign Missions. And I went and did some research on that because I thought, why those two? What was important in there?
undefined (11:18 - 11:50): And there is an artwork, a painting, that was done in 1784, so before the height of the French Revolution, right? and so this Bartolome I guess is the one that did this painting and it's a picture and it's kind of faint so it's hard to see but it's the image of the Blessed Trinity and below that is the Sacred Heart because Christ is depicted on the crucifix but then his heart is enlarged and these
undefined (11:50 - 12:03): rays of light are coming off the heart and St. Michael is there on the right side with his fiery sword, but the rays from his heart go into his sword, and he's throwing the devil into hell.
undefined (12:03 - 12:21): And on the other side shows all these people like from the world all over. There was an African and missionaries and all that. So it was like this battle that they saw that the sacred heart, the grace from the sacred heart was coming and helping St. Michael throw the devil into hell.
undefined (12:21 - 12:36): And I thought he must have seen that and he must have prayed before it. And maybe perhaps he was inspired to do this work. But here it was in the middle of this place that, you know, originated with Freemasonry.
undefined (12:36 - 13:06): And here's this beautiful picture. And also I believe he was at the chapel of the foreign missions. I was trying to understand that. and in one of the I think it was Father Birth that he said I got my answer that it was because he believed that he was praying for his own martyrdom like it was hinted at that here these missions missionaries a lot of the instrument of torture that were there
undefined (13:06 - 13:38): and they had been going over to China and Vietnam and so I was wondering if that's what he in fact was doing was praying for his country and of course in order to help his country because all the a lot of the missionaries that had been coming to Ecuador were being kicked out like the Jesuits and others probably praying that he could get them back in so I think that's I think there was a I guess God had a plan for him
undefined (13:38 - 13:48): to go to France because that is also where his faith came back to him in France He wasn't exactly a non-prat, he was not an atheist, okay?
undefined (13:48 - 14:08): He believed in his faith but he was not doing what he was supposed to do and they don really talk about it Well as I understand it he lived a somewhat dissolute life for a brief time and kind of was a bit of a liberal socially Right Now, as I understand it, Quito was kind of conservative, which is the capital.
undefined (14:09 - 14:20): But the coastal town of Gayaquil, where he came from, tended to be much more liberal. It had a lot more liberal influences. Although he came from a pious family, and they weren't liberal.
undefined (14:20 - 14:38): But he, for a time, fell into the fashionable stuff, but had a serious conversion when he ended up going to France and spending time in Paris. You talk about his sojourn in Paris and the Sons of Peace in the foreign missions chapel where he went to pray.
undefined (14:39 - 15:10): One of the articles that I read talked about how incredibly studious he was at this time. that he so father berth of course is his biographer um and there's an english translation it's a truncated version of his biography um available as well but um he he uh in one article that i read today it said he studied 16 hours a day now they know this from his correspondences he studied for 16 hours a day and he said if the day was made up of 20 to 48 hours i would gladly spent 40 of it studying.
undefined (15:10 - 15:21): Right. And one of the things that he studied was he read three times a massive...
undefined (15:21 - 15:38): Universal History of the Catholic Church. Yes. Yeah, it was a French... By the way, he spoke... He mastered French and English as well. And he read this piece, L'Israel Universal de l'Eglise Catholique, by...
undefined (15:39 - 15:49): Reverend Francois Rohrbacher, a French priest of the German name. And apparently he read this 25-volume set three times. Right.
undefined (15:49 - 16:09): And it gave him not only an exhaustive treatment of the history of the church, but also kind of his political theory, because it talks about the Catholic states and the union of the temporal society with the spiritual society and so forth.
undefined (16:10 - 16:26): So a life of prayer accompanied by a life of deep study. Right. In Paris, which I understand at the time, you could see revolutionary stuff set right side by side with thoroughly Catholic stuff.
undefined (16:26 - 16:38): So he could see kind of in the very belly of the beast itself of Freemasonry, he could see the battle going on between the church and Freemasonry.
undefined (16:38 - 16:54): Right, right. So that's kind of an explanation of some of his background. Is there anything else in his upbringing? I mean, you talked about the mercenarian priest who taught him.
undefined (16:54 - 17:13): I understand that the priest you mentioned was a mercadarian. Father Betancourt. Father Betancourt, yeah. He was Latin, and if you can believe it, he started, I think, within 10 months, he had learned everything that the priest had to give to him.
undefined (17:14 - 17:28): So he then didn't know what to do exactly with him, but he got the idea that he should go to Aikido, and his sister lived there. So he thought, you know, he okayed it with Garcia's mother.
undefined (17:28 - 17:40): And she said, okay. So he was about 16 years old when he went to Quito on his own. And he thought that he would like to be a lawyer. He got into the college there.
undefined (17:40 - 17:53): And he took all the studies. He also thought maybe he would like to be a priest. That was actually the first thing that he thought. And so he received the minor orders and received a tonsure.
undefined (17:54 - 18:06): And he was very serious about everything. But his friends, some thought that he would be a priest. But then it was decided that he should be of the world.
undefined (18:06 - 18:18): So he wanted to be the soldier for Christ as a priest. But in the end, even he ended up being a lawyer instead of a priest.
undefined (18:18 - 18:31): And he took that very seriously to the point of he never would represent anyone that he thought was bad. Okay, so like he didn't want to defend anybody that was bad.
undefined (18:31 - 18:45): And there was at one point where he had been duped by a priest that he thought was good. And he was defending him because he had been suspended to the Archbishop of Quito.
undefined (18:45 - 19:22): and in the midst of as he was defending him I don't know how long it took or whatever to realize that this priest was actually bad and he was so upset by this because he always said that he would never better to be a murderer than to defend a murderer okay so he was so like bent on not doing that so that he actually quit being a lawyer he did not want to be a lawyer anymore it really discouraged him And so, though he always loved politics, so he could do most anything.
undefined (19:22 - 19:34): His studies made, he was agreeable. He could have a conversation with a doctor about medical things. He could, of course, talk law. And he loved agriculture and the natural science.
undefined (19:34 - 19:44): He could talk to, you know, farmers and all that. So he was very, very equipped mentally to do the work that he was set out to do.
undefined (19:44 - 19:56): When he first entered the university, I think there was some talk of him possibly being some sort of scientist because he took to the sciences, chemistry, and maybe he'd be a botanist. But then he settled on law.
undefined (19:56 - 20:07): But later on, after the French exile, he comes back and he's spending time. He's actually teaching at, I think it's the University of Quito. So and they had they had him teaching chemistry.
undefined (20:07 - 20:21): So he could do most everything. So he was a bit of a Renaissance man. So that the now he so he he decides against the religious vocation.
undefined (20:21 - 20:53): He plunges himself deeply into his studies. And I believe at the time he was exiled. He had been a senator by that point already. and it was because of his he was already opposed to what the extreme liberals were doing in Ecuador and that's what caused him to be exiled by these incredibly corrupt men apparently there was a rash of at the time he was born Ecuador I think was like 9 years old so when he reaches adulthood
undefined (20:53 - 21:06): that's still not talking about an old country and there had been a lot of systemic corruption and he got exiled and that's where he ended up in France and that's where he experiences this deeper conversion.
undefined (21:07 - 21:21): And he comes back and so he gets married, right? He marries a Doña Rosa Ascasubi. Right. And does that have any impact on him?
undefined (21:21 - 21:56): I mean, the wife. It was interesting because when he went and married her, things were quite different back then um i had read not once but twice not just star samarano but another famous one in the history of of his his life and i can't remember who it was he was married by proxy in 1846 so he wasn't even there but she was he was 25 and she was 12 years old or 37 and they had known each other i guess for quite a while but she was of noble blood
undefined (21:56 - 22:08): and quite wealthy. And the other thing that was very interesting is that her brothers were of the same mindset as Garcia Marano and probably the whole family was.
undefined (22:08 - 22:29): And her brother would be, Manuel, would be a president of Ecuador. And then he would follow that. Okay. So I think mainly to support each other in their mentality, he was drawn to her because She was fairly, I think, intelligent.
undefined (22:30 - 22:41): And so they got married. They did have some children. And interestingly, he was exiled on and off.
undefined (22:41 - 22:55): You know, he was making these trips to France and such during this marriage. And she ended up dying of a herniation some years later.
undefined (22:55 - 23:06): But they had four children, and it seemed as though they all died at a young age. One was stillborn, I think, and a couple of them died the same day that they were born.
undefined (23:06 - 23:23): So that was kind of a tragic life. They loved each other very much. They exchanged letters when he was in France telling each other how much they loved him and missed him. But it just seemed so like, I don't know, just a sad, sad part in his life.
undefined (23:23 - 23:48): You know, he lost his children and everything. So, but that's what I could find out about her. I had talked to my friend down there, and he basically said that it was the mindset of the family that really captured him, that they had this in common about fighting for good and getting rid of the revolutionaries.
undefined (23:48 - 24:06): Now, for a time, he worked as a journalist. Right. I guess this would be one of the reasons why he would have been exiled at some point, because the tyrant who headed up Ecuador at the time was a man named Urbina.
undefined (24:07 - 24:20): And concerning him, Gabriel Garcia Moreno wrote this. No vice, no crime is unknown to him. Treason, perjury, swindling, brigandage, savage cruelty, perfidy, nothing is wanting.
undefined (24:20 - 24:31): His ignoble life is written bit by bit in the penal code, end quote. So apparently he was not a shy retiring type when it came to public controversy. No.
undefined (24:32 - 24:42): So they knew very well that they were not dealing with somebody who was politic, but he was a straight shooter as far as saying exactly what he meant. Right, right.
undefined (24:42 - 24:54): At one point, he was publishing six different newspapers in Quito and trying to do his best with his pen to fight these revolutionaries.
undefined (24:55 - 25:08): And he was even a poet. I don't know if you knew that. No, no, I didn't. He wrote poetry. So don't ask me to quote that because it was in Spanish. I'm sure that it was muy bien.
undefined (25:08 - 25:19): Yes. Yeah. And well, I mean, of course, he would have had quite an education, you know, even though he came from a poor family.
undefined (25:19 - 25:33): But the father, what was the name, Betancourt saw to it. And later on, he gets the university education. And as a journalist, he ends up defending the Jesuits, right, because they had been exiled.
undefined (25:35 - 25:47): And the revolutionaries knew that the Jesuits were their enemies. And this is back in the days when the Jesuits were quite different than Jesuits tended to be in our present day.
undefined (25:48 - 26:02): And he wrote a pamphlet defending the Jesuits against their enemies. Right. And so why don't we fast forward now to when he comes to power as president.
undefined (26:02 - 26:14): And he was president, I think he had three terms as president. He was starting his third term when he got assassinated. He was preparing for, like, the big celebration and everything.
undefined (26:14 - 26:26): Yes, he had gotten elected. What happened was he was able to be elected, I think it was in 1861, and then he had a four-year term.
undefined (26:26 - 26:45): And because of the Constitution was written in such a way, he couldn't have a second term immediately. So he set it up so that he would be defending, supporting another good Catholic president would be able to take on his role.
undefined (26:45 - 27:00): Okay. And then he was able to be reelected then after that. So like in 1865. Okay. And one of the things that I found interesting was from that 1861 to 1865 term.
undefined (27:00 - 27:31): term. After he was finished, he wanted to travel. He wanted a break. And I was just reading that they, so he, the rule was that the ex-president couldn't leave for a year after his presidency, probably in case there was trouble. But he, they, he could go to Congress and refute that and ask for this special thing, and it was unanimous that nobody wanted him to leave.
undefined (27:31 - 27:41): If something happens and the revolutionaries come back and they want to start a war or something, we want him to lead the troops. Okay? So, like, he was not allowed to step down, really. Wow.
undefined (27:41 - 28:05): He was there, and, in fact, he did do that during his time. That was the break in his presidency. He would help quell some of these revolutions in different towns and that kind of thing Yeah he was kind of a soldier by compulsion From what I had read he never had any formal military training but he actually had to lead troops in battle at some point.
undefined (28:05 - 28:30): Right, right, that's true. And so, again, a man of all trades and ready to fight for God. And his enemies were such that the only way that he knew that this could stop with the revolution is that when he would capture one of his enemies, and they were, you know, revolutionaries, they would be executed.
undefined (28:31 - 28:44): And people would try to, you know, get him to, you know, give them a break, but they were executed. And so that was really the way that he saw fit to try to stop this.
undefined (28:44 - 29:03): And he was quite successful with that. So along those lines, if you read about him in, say, the Encyclopedia Britannica and probably the Wikipedia article, which I just skimmed parts of it, but if you look at some of the non-Catholic sources, they're going to call him a theocrat.
undefined (29:04 - 29:22): They're going to come a tyrant and despot and all these things. And the basis in reality for this is he actually, so, okay, he was very counter against corruption.
undefined (29:22 - 29:40): So in his first term, he attempted to clean up all the political, financial, educational, and ecclesiastical mess in the church. and he signed the most favorable concordat that the Holy See ever signed with any foreign nation.
undefined (29:40 - 29:55): Right. They tithed 10% of their income through the papacy. Well, yeah, that was when Blessed Pius IX was a prisoner in the Vatican and had lost any means of financial support.
undefined (29:55 - 30:06): So the entire Ecuador tithed 10% of its economy to the support of the Holy Father. So the Constitution that he had, the Constitution was kind of defective.
undefined (30:07 - 30:24): Through Congress, through their Congress, he instituted another, had approved another Constitution, which said that the Catholic Apostolic Roman faith was the religion of the state to the exclusion of all others.
undefined (30:24 - 30:34): He also made it so that only Catholics were allowed to hold public office. And members of secret societies were deprived of their Ecuadorian citizenship.
undefined (30:35 - 31:06): Yeah, citizenship. So these were all ways. Of course, this is going to get the liberals and the Freemasons furious. Right. Even at one point, I'm going back to the executions, his mother asked him not to go forth with some of his determination so mother what would you have me do I have to be just and this is the only way to bring about justice so yeah he was really strict but
undefined (31:06 - 31:20): he was effective and he turned the country around in four years when he had his first term so much he didn't take any salary.
undefined (31:20 - 31:36): He split his salary between giving it back to the state so that they could make improvements. Like, you know, they were making roads. They had the railroad come in, the schools, everything he could possibly do, he was trying to fix.
undefined (31:36 - 31:49): And the other half went to the poor. And many times he himself would go and distribute food and things like that, try to improve the lives of these poor people.
undefined (31:49 - 32:01): So he really had a very tremendous heart like Christ, but, you know, he was also very just. Yeah, and some of these poor were the Indians, some of whom didn't even speak Spanish.
undefined (32:01 - 32:14): They spoke whatever the native dialect was. So he saw to it their material support. And to improve education, what did he do?
undefined (32:14 - 32:43): because that was one of his goals well what happened was all the religious had been dispersed because of the revolutionaries and he went and petitioned France some of the orders in France like the Christian brothers, the Jesuits some of the orders of nuns of charity a number of them he asked for help so that the teaching sisters would come, the Christian brothers would come and And they did.
undefined (32:43 - 33:01): They came and they established schools. And I was trying to, there was like 500 schools that he set up in a short period of time. They ran out of religious to do the teaching, so they set up the Christian brothers so that they would start schools for the laity so they could start teaching.
undefined (33:01 - 33:15): Wow. And he said there was no, with the schools, they had to teach religion, the Catholic faith. There was no teaching education without the Catholic faith.
undefined (33:15 - 33:27): So you can imagine, and he pretty much made an order that the parents should send the children to school eight years and up. It was almost like an order, like a command.
undefined (33:28 - 33:38): And so in every little village, the children should come. If there's 50 or more, they wanted a school to start. So that's basically the rule that he had.
undefined (33:38 - 33:52): So he was sending people all over the country to get the children educated, which I thought was pretty phenomenal. And even women. So they had nuns that were teaching the girls and women, too.
undefined (33:52 - 34:05): There was oftentimes today, and of course, the American political landscape of any era is not a sufficient guide to appreciate statecraft as it would be practiced in a place like this.
undefined (34:05 - 34:38): but the oftentimes if you look at the way that through the sort of bigotries of liberals modern liberals they're going to assume that somebody who was in so tight with the church who was anti-freemasonic and who was part of the believed in this traditional Christian concept of statecraft they're going to assume that such a person would favor the upper classes and sort of snub the lower classes and be against quote unquote social justice But it's quite the opposite in this case.
undefined (34:38 - 34:53): As you said, he gave half of his income to the poor. The other half he returned to the national treasury. So he wasn't a money grubber. He was a man of personal means, especially after his marriage, because she came from a well-to-do family.
undefined (34:53 - 35:04): So he didn't have these needs, and he didn't want to grift off of the public wheel. Instead, he wanted to benefit the poor and genuinely to benefit the nation.
undefined (35:05 - 35:17): Um, and, and, but also another, another assumption, I think a gratuitous assumption that people are going to make is somebody who believes in the traditional Catholic concept of the union of church and state.
undefined (35:17 - 35:34): Um, and once religious instruction in all the schools, even the polytechnic schools, as well as the younger grades, he, they're going to assume that he's going to be, you know, anti-science and, and not progressive as far as things like roads, bridges, infrastructure and all that are going to go.
undefined (35:34 - 36:01): But when you read the life of Gabriel Garcia Moreno, you see it's exactly the opposite. He built railroads. He wanted to join the coast to the Sierra, you know, the mountainous high regions in the center of the country, which, as I understand it, there was tension between the coastal part and the interior part, the Sierra.
undefined (36:01 - 36:12): and there was a lot of sort of internal rivalry and stuff like that. But he wanted to end that and literally connected the two with the railroad.
undefined (36:12 - 36:23): Right. And I read today that that was the only thing that he had started that the Freemasons, who were his enemies, would ultimately continue. They tried to undo every single thing he did except that.
undefined (36:23 - 36:56): Right. And he was also a man of science, you know, having taught, studied, and then taught chemistry. So you can't, you know, all of these, what do you call it, all of these sort of caricatures of what a conservative is like when he gets into office, a real Catholic traditionalist kind of, you know, union of state, union of throne and altar or at least presidential Republican chair and altar with the state, with rather the church.
undefined (36:56 - 37:07): They're going to assume that somebody like that would be, quote, unquote, backward. But he was more progressive, to use the word properly, than his predecessors.
undefined (37:07 - 37:18): He was extremely progressive in terms of trying to improve Ecuador. What else should we know of measures he took to improve the republic?
undefined (37:19 - 37:47): Well, he brought in plants. He had this love for botany, like you mentioned. And he brought in bamboo plants and also some type of pine because there was an erosion going on in the outlying areas because the indigenous people were using, you know, to heat their homes or whatever it was.
undefined (37:47 - 38:01): They were cutting down the plants and the trees. And so he wanted something. I take it that bamboo grows pretty quickly, and I'm thinking that that was one of the ways he actually went and got it from Australia.
undefined (38:01 - 38:21): He had it brought in. Yeah. But he did that a lot. Gary Potter's article that we have on our website, and I'll link to it from the show details page from reconquest.net, he says that he brought in countless eucalyptus trees from Australia to stop the soil erosion that began when the poor Indians cut down ground cover for fuel.
undefined (38:21 - 38:37): So, yeah, I mean, so somebody who actually improved infrastructure, public infrastructure, the land itself, railroads, and then also building up people's faith.
undefined (38:38 - 38:48): Right. And he genuinely believed, I think, as a matter of principle, that there needed to be cooperation between the leaders in the church and the leaders in the state.
undefined (38:49 - 39:25): Right. Right. Right. I wanted to mention before you know we were talking so much but this year on August 6th is the 150th anniversary of his martyrdom and so Keto is preparing for that there's an institute down there called the Institute of Gabriel Garcia Moreno and they are they're putting out some medallions and holy cards to commemorate that It's probably not a very popular thing nowadays, but I give them a lot of credit,
undefined (39:25 - 39:36): and I'm hoping that they have good success with this because I think the show is a good way to get people introduced to his cause.
undefined (39:37 - 39:54): It would be nice to get it back, to get the cause. The cause was put forth in, I believe, the 1950s, and Cardinal Torre, who was conservative at the time, he addressed the martyrdom of Garcia Marano.
undefined (39:55 - 40:10): He, in fact, believed that he was a martyr, as did many of the popes from Pope Pius IX up to Pius XII. Yeah, Pius IX explicitly called him a martyr. Right, so did Leo XIII and so did Pius XII for sure.
undefined (40:10 - 40:28): So they wanted to do this, but the problem is that the enemy is down there still, and there aren't enough in the church to merit this putting forth the canonization.
undefined (40:28 - 40:41): I'm thinking that it might, once we have our restoration, probably Mother Mariana and Garcia Moreno will be, their causes might be coming forth together, you know.
undefined (40:41 - 40:53): So, but I want to mention that. Gary Potter mentioned something about his controversy in current-day Ecuador. Now, this is actually a couple decades ago when he wrote this article.
undefined (40:53 - 41:04): But when Pope John Paul II was in Ecuador and one of his many international trips, he spoke in the cathedral.
undefined (41:04 - 41:21): And Gary read coverage of the speech. And he thought, okay, well, they probably omitted something because he makes no reference here to Gabriel Garcia Moreno. And he didn't want to just assume that the pope didn't mention him because he was assassinated right there.
undefined (41:21 - 41:33): And he died in that cathedral. So Gary went to – he spoke Spanish, and he went to the Ecuadorian embassy. He lived in Washington, D.C., so he could just, like, walk or take a cab or whatever to the embassy.
undefined (41:34 - 41:45): And he asked an attaché at the embassy about it. And he said – when he mentioned the name, Gabriel Garcia Moreno, he saw the guy's eyes get kind of wide. But he said he was a gentleman.
undefined (41:45 - 42:06): He didn you know say anything Well then a few days later he gets so he know I like to get to see if there a complete transcript of the Pope speech in Quito at the cathedral and if there was any mention of Gabriel Garcia Moreno And that's when the guy's eyes got big.
undefined (42:06 - 42:17): Then a couple days later, he gets a telephone call from somebody else. They said, no, we've checked. And there was no mention of Gabriel Garcia Moreno. And Gary was kind of, I don't know, scandalized is the right word.
undefined (42:18 - 42:33): And then the guy added, he says, you know, he's still quite a controversial figure today in our country. He's more controversial than he was at the time of his life because of the liberal ideas that are down there now.
undefined (42:34 - 42:46): What should we know about, I mean, the argument can be that he was a fantastic statesman and a truly great statesman by any measure. and, in addition, a great Catholic statesman.
undefined (42:47 - 43:13): But what should we know about his personal piety? Because he was genuinely a fervent Catholic. Yes, he was. Well, one of the lesser-known things that I'll just mention briefly was that in his time as president, and I had asked my contact this, I had seen the crucifix that he carried through Quito on a number of occasions.
undefined (43:13 - 43:34): I asked him about that, and he would do that many, many times, I guess. But the last time he carried that cross through Quito was on Good Friday, and it was probably his last Easter that he was going to witness.
undefined (43:35 - 43:46): And so that alone, I mean, how many presidents go around carrying a huge cross through town? But he was very penitential. He went to daily mass, I think at 5 o'clock in the morning.
undefined (43:47 - 43:59): He said his prayers, and he said at least a portion of the rosary. They were saying a decade, but I have a hard time thinking that he didn't say a whole rosary.
undefined (43:59 - 44:10): But anyway, he kept the imitation of Christ on him. He had a rule, a Catholic rule, that he was to follow, and that was on his body when they found him.
undefined (44:10 - 44:25): He was wearing two different kinds of scapulars. He had the rosary around his neck. This was all under his clothing, so nobody had known about this until he died. And when he was martyred, all of this was bloodstained, okay?
undefined (44:25 - 44:56): And so he died on Good Friday. I mean, not Good Friday, First Friday. and you know the promise of that was he was taken to La Dolorosa which was a Nebulo yeah Our Lady of Sorrows yeah it was the statue of La Dolorosa and he was able to get the last rites and they say that his wounds are so horrific that he
undefined (44:56 - 45:06): they couldn't believe he lasted 15 minutes so he had been shot 6 times an axe or machete blow to his head that penetrated his brain.
undefined (45:07 - 45:20): His hand was severed and his arm was severed. And it was just amazing. He forgave his enemies through his expression of his eyes. Because he couldn't speak, right?
undefined (45:20 - 45:38): The priest told him to forgive his enemies. Those last words were, God does not die. And those were his last words. And so everyone knew that he was very, very pious because of his schedule, okay, because he would go to daily mass and confession and all that.
undefined (45:38 - 45:51): So he led an exemplary life of charity towards the poor, and then his prayer life was very exemplary because he went to daily mass.
undefined (45:51 - 46:07): And he kept the other things very quiet where he didn't tell people what he did, but he said he had on his rule of life that he would always kneel or stand to pray if able.
undefined (46:07 - 46:19): So he tried to be very strict with himself, and he also was wearing a hair shirt. The rule of life can be read in its entirety in Gary Potter's article on Catholicism.org.
undefined (46:19 - 46:30): And it's a bit lengthy. I mean, not too lengthy, but in it, you see, you know, he won't take any recreation ordinarily until 8 o'clock at night.
undefined (46:32 - 46:42): And he had this rigorous schedule that he would follow. And he also, obviously, he was somebody for whom time meant an awful lot.
undefined (46:42 - 46:55): He didn't waste it. And one of the stories that I thought was very edifying, it shows one of his faults. because apparently he could be impatient. He was so driven. They said he was tall, kind of a very handsome guy.
undefined (46:56 - 47:08): And, you know, you get the idea he's an alpha male, right? But he was very energetic, and he demanded that people in the administration be energetic, too, and do their work diligently.
undefined (47:08 - 47:21): No manana attitude. Right. And there was a story that exposes one of his faults, But it also shows you something edifying about him.
undefined (47:22 - 47:34): He particularly resolved to be humble and to meditate on humility and ask for it every morning. But this priest interrupted him for something apparently kind of trivial when he was busy with something.
undefined (47:35 - 47:48): And he chewed the priest out for wasting his own time and for wasting Moreno's time and the priest's time to discuss this trivial issue. And the priest kind of went away sheepishly.
undefined (47:48 - 48:02): And Moreno, obviously a man of prayer, he would examine his conscience twice a day. He realized, obviously, at some point that he shouldn't have done this.
undefined (48:02 - 48:17): And the next morning early, he visits the priest to apologize and ask his forgiveness. Right. So, I mean, that kind of, and he's a head of state. So, you know, he wasn't a clericalist, you know, just bowing down to everything that came out of a priest's mouth.
undefined (48:18 - 48:28): He knew his role. But when he committed that little fault, he wanted to make sure he made up for it. Right. Yeah.
undefined (48:28 - 48:42): Okay. So we've got a little over six minutes now. And now we've already actually talked about his death and many of his major political accomplishments.
undefined (48:43 - 48:53): What were some of the things that – now, sadly, a lot of what he did was undone as soon as the liberals got back into power afterwards. Right.
undefined (48:53 - 49:04): But what was said about him by some of the great Catholic thinkers, popes, churchmen, statesmen, whatever, after his death?
undefined (49:04 - 49:19): I did find that Louis Villot, the famous French ultramontanist Catholic journalist, called him a true workman of God and praised him to the skies after his death.
undefined (49:19 - 49:31): We've already talked about how popes from Blessed Pius IX through Leo through Pius XII referred to him as a martyr. Are there any other tokens of appreciation for him from notables in church and state?
undefined (49:34 - 49:45): Well, as I mentioned, there are a lot of popes that – let me just see. I've got some information here.
undefined (49:49 - 50:04): While you're looking for that, I just want to mention some of the other facts about his rule of life. So every day when I say my prayers, I'll especially ask for the virtue of humility.
undefined (50:04 - 50:15): Every day I'll hear Mass, say the rosary, and read besides a chapter of the invitation. This was written in the back of the invitation. I'll read this rule and the annexed instructions.
undefined (50:15 - 50:28): I'll take care to keep myself as much as possible in the presence of God, especially in conversation, so as not to speak useless words. I will constantly offer my heart to God in principally before beginning any action.
undefined (50:29 - 50:41): I will say to myself continually, I am worse than a demon and deserve that hell should be my dwelling place. When I am tempted, I will add, what shall I think of this in the hour of my last agony?
undefined (50:41 - 50:57): I think there's a lot of Jesuit influence on this because some of these are the kinds of things that Jesuit spiritual directors, you know, retreat masters would have been saying. Right. You already talked about, I'll never pray sitting when I can pray standing or on my knees.
undefined (50:59 - 51:34): Yeah, I know. so well there are a couple interesting people in the lives you know in the history here that really thought highly of Garcia Moreno one where the bishops of France added their support to the canonization and they thought the most important thing they could do would be to put forth that cause of beatification of Garcia Moreno And Father Mateo Crawley, the founder of the home and throne of Jesus, of Sacred Heart Jesus,
undefined (51:34 - 51:55): longed for his canonization as well because he felt that Garcia Moreno had given him such a great gift to help spread the devotion because they had found the original painting of the Sacred Heart that Garcia Moreno had commissioned.
undefined (51:55 - 52:06): He had commissioned the Sacred Heart, and somehow it went into hiding because, I think, because of the Masons. Okay, so it ended up, I believe, in Peru.
undefined (52:07 - 52:17): And Father Mateo found it, and he started using that to spread the devotion of the Sacred Heart. Now, that's significant. I hadn't seen that.
undefined (52:18 - 52:45): So Father Mateo Crowley was the great apostle of home enthronement to the Sacred Heart. He's very famous, I mean, in his own right. He used that so that the painting was the sacred heart of Jesus crowned, and he's holding a globe, and the rays of his heart were landing on the globe, and it was where it exactly landed was the country of Ecuador.
undefined (52:46 - 53:06): So it's very prominent. I have that image here. and it's very touching. I mean, it was such a, when I was finding out this stuff, I was just like, there was such a tie-in with so many things that we just don't know, you know, where the origin of certain things, they come from, where they come from.
undefined (53:06 - 53:23): That was one thing that really touched me. I would like to mention that we met, this was early 2000s, One of the main historians of Ecuador, his name was Francisco, Dr. Francisco Salazar Alvarado.
undefined (53:24 - 53:52): And we were honored to get to know him. And he had a love for Garcia Moreno. And his relative, his great-great-grandfather, was actually one of Garcia Marano's not only friend, but companion in the battle, like a fellow politician, and relied on this Salazar for much.
undefined (53:52 - 54:05): But anyway, he took upon it. It was getting to be 1973, and they wanted to start remembering Garcia Moreno.
undefined (54:06 - 54:19): It would be like the 100th anniversary of his death. They wanted to do something special. And one of his friends said, well, I don't know if we should even bother because we haven't been successful in finding the body of Garcia Moreno.
undefined (54:19 - 54:30): And it's kind of sad, and maybe we should just let it go until we can find it. And so Dr. Salza set out to find the body.
undefined (54:31 - 54:41): And in April of, I believe it was 1974, he set out to do this.
undefined (54:41 - 55:02): And in 1975, they were able not only to find his body, but also the hearts, because they had taken the hearts of Garcia Moreno and Archbishop Chucky Barber out of their bodies, and they hid them in one of the, there was a chapel of the Good Shepherd.
undefined (55:03 - 55:13): Okay, the good guys hid them, the good guys hid them, right? Yeah, well, yes, the good guys hid them so that the Masons wouldn't destroy them. They were very fearful of that.
undefined (55:13 - 55:23): In fact, the widow of Garcian Vareno, and he had one son that survived. He was married twice. So this was, her name was Mariana.
undefined (55:24 - 55:35): And she hid in the monastery of St. Catherine there for a time after his death because they were afraid that they were going to come after them.
undefined (55:35 - 55:48): Wow. I'm afraid we've come to the end of our time. Kathleen so thank you we'll have to cut it off there you've listened to Reconquest on the Crusade Radio Network God bless and Mary keep you
To read more about this wonderful example of Catholic Leadership and Martyrdom: